The Toolkit

Tools for building the future

The Toolkit with CID: Making a Career in Music & Starting a Label

Top Takeaways

  • Take the time to develop your material and brand. Find the perfect spot, and people will reach out to you.
  • Having an online presence makes it easier to build community and connect with people and fans.
  • Find the best people who resonate with your sound and work with them continuously.
  • Help new producers.
  • Have fun with your music.

Guest Profile

CID was born and raised in Queens, New York. His dedicated passion for music started showing at the age of just 11 years old, when he would regularly travel for miles on the bus, so he could spend hours listening to new music at his favorite record shop. It wasn’t long before he became acquainted with some of New York’s finest DJs, as they became increasingly curious about this enthusiastic young kid, who was seamlessly browsing the same records that they’d been spinning at clubs the night before.

Genres: House, Electro House

Labels: Hexagon, Night Bass Records, Musical Freedom, Spinnin’ Deep, Big Beat Records, Warner Bros., Arkade, Size Records, Doorn Records, X Records, Spinnin’ Records, Protocol Recordings, Polydor, Virgin EMI, Reprise, Columbia, Astralwerks, Spinnin’ Remixes, Virgin, Potion, Atlantic

Artists: Don Diablo, Sizzy Rocket, Mednas, Cedric Gervais, Kaskade, Kryder, Jonas Blue, Galantis, VINNE, Tommie Sunshine, Modern Machines

Episode Highlights

  • Grammy and Remix

It’s better to have the artist or the label reach out to you instead of putting yourself forward since it puts you in a different negotiating position.

Every musician has a different way of approaching music. Some listen to the full track while others go by stems.

There’s no one approach to being an efficient DJ.

  • New Platforms

“You’re gonna have the most success through an artist-driven label.”

Getting into playlists is vital in establishing a path to becoming well-known in the DJ industry.

DJ cosign label support is necessary for beginners.

“You can have a song that blows up on Spotify, but those people are fans of [that] song and not you as an artist.”

The biggest problem is getting people to be your fan, follow you, and support you.

Taking care of your community base will bridge gaps in anyone’s music production career. This is also one way to garner more fans across other parts of the world.

  • Labels, Agents, and Managers

Find agents that have contacts and establish relationships.

A lawyer provided him professional advice to get a manager. Be proactive in looking out for people who can work for you, but also listen to the recommendations given to you. The possibilities for finding good working relationships are endless.

  • Sound Alignment and Production

“Everything goes back to having the right context. If your manager does all bass artists and you sign as a house artist, you’re gonna have some trouble.”

Some managers may not get your music. It’s important to find the right people who understand your context.

Producing music and supporting DJs need to go hand in hand and must be done constantly to create new fans.

The producer side of music has driven a lot in recent years.

  • Branding Your Own Label

“I’ve had some more success with some of the more melodic vocal stuff, but in reality… I’m a club DJ.”

The whole branding behind labels is a good venture. You need to know your brand, and the idea is to stick to it.

Don’t confuse the listeners with what you do.

People want more club music today, especially played live or in festivals.

“You want to be at a certain point where you can help young, smaller artists grow.”

  • The Radio Show

“I’ve never really done this before. My approach was I’ll do the first show, and then, I’ll turn that into a template.”

Be hands-on in doing your projects and use different programs and platforms (Adobe Audition and Ableton Live)

  • Music Production Labels

His music production influence started through his brother, who was more of a musician than he is.

Take advantage of technology in music production.

CID has an administration deal with spinning and his managers handle that for him especially for contracting.

When his venture got into Instagram, he felt like he can grow the label in 3 years.

Find the right people to work with you to get your label growing and branching out.

  • For Young Producers

Continue doing what you have started, and these connections will soon follow.

Create a balance between being persistent and annoying.

Music production has exponential growth, but young producers should know how to wait.

Young producers should be a little more clever now than people needed to be 10 years ago.

Bootlegs are still really key to getting noticed by artists and in festivals.

Sometimes, you need to pay advanced fees.

  • Sampling and Vocal Artists

“I want to make whatever is going to get people to want to follow me and come to my shows.”

If getting people to follow you means that you need to spend, then it’s a worthy investment.

“Most artists never retain the rights of their master recording, but they keep the rights of their publishing.”

  • Deciding on Tracks

When you see the reaction of your crowd, then you know if your music is good.

People want to get surprised by things they don’t know.

Things are different in the studio setup versus the DJ booth.

  • Touring and Clubs

Most of his relationships are built on having conversations online. The internet has helped him build his image, brand, and community.

Have conversations with people and make meaningful connections.

CID’s 3 Best Clubs: Echo Stage in Washington DC: Perfect balance between a club and a warehouse, Laroc in Brazil: Insane production and place like Coachella, and The Brooklyn Mirage in New York: A sole community in that place

About the Host:

Justin Fortier lives in Brooklyn, NY, and works for a consulting company serving industrial companies.

How to Connect with Justin Fortier

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Transcript

Justin Fortier: Thanks for opening up the toolkit. I’m your host, Justin Fortier, today’s guest house music DJ and producer said join me to talk about sustaining a career in music, starting his new label and the steps required to be able to perform music in front of crowds around the world citizen incredible producer, who has put out songs with a cascade Don Diablo luxury and a number of official remixes for artists like Diplo, lizzo and Ellie Goulding. With over 100 million plays on Spotify, and frequent appearances on top playlists and radio shows. His music does very well commercially, but he also embraces a more underground side for some of his touring, playing top house music clubs. In addition to a circuit of larger festivals. I had a great time recording this episode and learned a lot about the music business from his authentic answers. To learn more about said check him out at Sid music on Instagram. In preparation for our conversation, I listened to a great interview done by wil joy that goes for the beginning of CID’s career. Rather than me repeating a similar interview. I went deeper into CID’s career and we’ll link to that episode on his starting out in the show notes alongside the links to listen to sits music. Now please enjoy my conversation with CID.

Justin Fortier: I was hoping we could start with behind the scenes on your remix of Labyrinth, sia and Diplo is track audio that earned you a Grammy nomination? How does a remix like that come about? Or that specific remix happen? And what are some of the pieces that move to give you that opportunity? And then maybe back?

CID: So I think for that one? That was I think I’d say about two years ago around this time. It was the fair like Diplo was somebody obviously would like I always looked up to and but never really like supported me for like, just because I guess he wasn’t aware with my music. And I thought I’d say it was about two years ago, he started playing this song that I did called bad for me, which was an original that I put out on, on hexagon on the elbows label. And I think my you know, it’s one of those things, you don’t really know how you get into people’s radar, but I’m, I’m pretty sure that was it. He was playing that song a lot. And then we just obviously I’d, I’d seen the SEO project. And I mean, I list the project. And the request came in, you know, sometimes it’s, in my experience, it’s always been better having it that way. Having the artists or the label reach out to you, as opposed to me being like, Oh, I just heard this new single, I want to remix it because it puts you in a different negotiating position. As far as like fee and, and then being more like excited about it. So that one it was just like, and there’s been other ones as well. Now as things have grown, like, we’re getting more on on that side of them, you know, requesting me. So yeah, with that one, it was just, it was just that and, you know, when I’m creating it, it’s like, you know, just kind of, you’re not thinking of what it’s going to be or what it’s going to do, you’re just kind of making something cool that I was my idea. Just like, you know, I love the original and kind of make it something that I could play in my sets and stuff. And that’s how it went.

Justin Fortier: When you’re starting with a remix of a track. Do you approach it? By listening to the song first or I heard MK in an interview say that he would always just start straight with the stems and not even listen to the whole track. So he wouldn’t be influenced? How do you approach something like that?

CID: It’s different every time. You know, a lot of times what I’m getting sent is the track. And then if I’m cool with that, I think I’d come with come up with something then I’ll go back and ask for the stems. But you know, so it’s different. I mean, I think that was probably a situation where I had gotten just the full track and like messed with it a little and then from there kind of went with it because I kept the same chords in that and I think that was the main thing like obviously, it’s all original new sounds. There’s some like really cool effects of like, like betting sounds that I kept. So it’s fair. It’s like it’s different every time.

Justin Fortier: We’re talking about diplo’s support of a track. I know you’ve had involvement with 1001 tracklist Is that something that you’re watching your management’s watching to see where your tracks are popping up? Or is it usually more informal? Or do DJs let each other know when they play each other songs? Is it some combination of all that?

CID: People who are kind of that I have a relationship with, usually let me know. A lot, definitely, like 1001 I’ve been friends with those guys for years, you know, and it’s amazing to see what they’ve built over there. And it’s become the, you know, like the benchmark for, for how a song is doing, especially for a club record, you know, beatport is, is beatport, and Spotify, Spotify as far as, but that doesn’t really directly relate to who’s playing your music? How many people are playing it? So? Yeah, I mean, there’s definitely been situations where I see Oh, x played this track on 1001. Let me reach out to them and, and try to like, create a relationship there.

Justin Fortier: On 1001s tracklist I noticed that, especially artists like you, Valentino Khan, Don Diablo, performed really well actually across festivals as well. Is, is that something that you were always interested in? Or is that just the type of music you think that a wider array of artists are interested in playing your sounds that like, kind of the horn type sound or the lead in yours? I think, is that something you’re thinking about? Or we’re thinking about at the beginning? When you design tracks, was it festivals? Or was it always club focused?

CID: I kind of do both. Some music is definitely more festival driven. I’m not like specifically, I think early on in my career I was trying to make is I think this is like that first phase is like, Oh, I want this, these DJs to play my music. So I think that established me early on as far as like getting a really large, diverse kind of group of DJs playing my music, I think my music kind of fits in like a, you know, it’s not a very specific, narrow sound is kind of something that I think a lot of different DJs can play. So I think that had a lot of like effect on that too.

Justin Fortier: The first episode I did at the show was with Robb McDaniels, who’s the CEO of beatport. And he talked about how he kind of viewed the DJ as the new platform. Something like streaming or radio have like the DJ as a selector is something that beatport obviously sees a lot of value in. In terms of the different promotion methods, do you think you you’ve seen more uptick in a fan base from other DJs playing your track or something like a song taking off on Spotify? Because kind of one’s a very small group of people that need to know about your music, that push it out? And then the other is just Austin Kramer?

CID: Yeah, that’s the thing. So I’ve had both I mean, I think as a new artist, DJ producer, them, you’re gonna have the most success through an artist driven label. Like, that’s the most important thing, right? This DJ is gonna cosign you by putting out your song on his label. But that doesn’t necessarily guarantee that it’s going to do well on Spotify. You know, if that artist and that label, have a big fan base, it’s gonna get you fans. But then I’m and I’ve had, on the other side of it, I’ve seen what’s possible. And with as far as Spotify, we know, you know, the playlist thing is super important. But I’ve had again, this one bad for me, it was one that I really believed in that I was like, I think this is gonna, this is gonna go it’s you know, it’s cool vocal, it’s, it’s got melody in it. But it wasn’t one that was heavily supported in the playlists on Spotify. But it was this weird thing where kind of the algorithm kind of just started working because people, people were sharing it, people were playing it and it grew in that world, and I saw a whole different kind of fan base just from that. So I think early on key is definitely DJ cosign label support for sure.

Justin Fortier: When you’re going on tour, or you want to get booked at a club or a festival, where do you see the bigger factor or the contributing factor? Is it possible to get booked at clubs with just Spotify plays or are the promoters there looking at the DJ network too?

CID: Yeah, I think it has more to do with I think Spotify as far as touring because there’s there can be such a disconnect, you can have a song that blows up on Spotify, but those people just be are fans have this song and not you as an artist. So that’s been, I think in the current state of, of music that’s the biggest problem is how do you get these people to become your fans? And that means them take being like, Okay, how I’m going to go to this guy’s Instagram or this guy’s Twitter and and see what he’s about. And then if they like you, then they’ll follow you. So I think it has more to do with your socials and the the fan base, you build on that side rather than the success of one song. And yeah, I think promoters still kind of, they definitely still look at the port for clubs. I think they, they really, you know, my experiences they really value their community and who their community is talking about. So I think number one, if it’s like a new artist who is like in that questionable stay like is this guy gonna come and sell tickets or sell nothing? I think people in their community coming to the promoters being like, Oh, we want to see this guy is really important. And and again, being on the coast I’m and everything I think helps the most. And let me Dad, I’m gonna add one more thing because I. So one experience for me was going, I played a show in Japan like two years ago, maybe. And it was right after me a couple months after I’d put out the EP that I did on hexagon. Bad from EP. And that was one of those situations where I had already done some stuff with Don Diablo with hexagon, but it had been a while. And I swear man, it was like I said it was a sold out show. Half the crowd had hexagon merchant. Like Yeah, just like one of those obvious things. It’s like, Okay, that was the right move to do that. Because, you know, and other parts of the world like this is getting me all these fans that I didn’t have before.

Justin Fortier: That was actually perfect lead into something I was thinking about. With labels. There’s the the big labels, we’ll get to talking about your label later. But hexagon and I’d say it to some extent dirtybird. In the US, there are labels that are smaller in terms of maybe even overall plays dirtybird especially it’s much smaller, but even Claude von stroke, the labels owner only gets about 500,000 plays a month on Spotify, but they’re able to convert that to sold out 10,000 person events twice a year, and all this other stuff that the label is really putting on in terms of they’ve got a super loyal community. And I wanted to talk a bit bit about how you end up in Asia is that through hexagon I’ve seen you do a lot of tours over there.

CID: Look, this this whole thing, it’s it’s still based around gatekeepers, like you, you know, the pit things happen in different order, but usually you get a manager, then you get an agent, and you want an agent who’s excited about you. And for us, I’ve been with the same agent for since the beginning really but for for Asia, I had, I switched maybe a couple of years ago, and I went with this smaller agency, and they’re really the ones who have the context. You know, I don’t my first run around, it’s like, I don’t know, anyone in fucking Japan who’s gonna want to book me and yeah, like, there’s some artists who, who have that like, ability to go out there, find these people and, and have them bring them out. But the right way is you have an agent agent has the contacts. And then you start building an establishing those relationships yourself. And that’s, that’s how that works for sure.

Justin Fortier: When selecting in agent, is that something you worked with your manager on? is how does that process go about? Also, if you could talk a bit about how you came in contact with your manager selected how that’s worked out? I think that that’s probably for younger artists who are thinking about, we’re finally starting to get some traction. That’s a huge decision and it looks like it.

CID: So obviously, my story’s a little different than most people but I like I did DJing and producing and then I started producing for other people. And then I got to the point where I was like I I don’t want to do this. I don’t I feel like I’m not getting the attention. I deserve on my own stuff. And I want to focus on that. And I met this lawyer. What I know at the time was cascades lawyer. So he first thing he did was ask cascade about me and cascade was playing one of my tracks. And he, this lawyer took me on as a client, and that his first thing was you need a manager. So, you know, this is my experience, there’s a million different ways, but I think the key is get a manager. And, you know, if it’s a good manager, they’re gonna have the context, they will, they’re artists they have, who are up with all different agents. So friend, Mike, what ended up happening for me was I kind of met to a bunch of different management, managers and stuff. And then I ended up going with Stephanie Lee Farah whose little Empire who at the time was managing cascade. So they had the whole concept for me, this is, again, the whole concept of the cosine. It’s like, cascade, like, messes my stuff. And I think there’s a good place for me to be so I ended up signing with his agent, because it made sense. But then on the other side, it’s, you know, it can be someone else recommending you, or, or an agency that reaches out to you, you know, as you start establishing, there’s definitely going to be people who, who are going to do it the other way. So, for my agent for Europe, and Asia, this was because originally what I did was I signed with William Morris for the world, even though my age and was in the US. And I felt like I, I love I mean, I still, he’s been killing it for me, in the US, but I felt like I wanted something a little smaller for Europe and for Asia. So it was an agency that had been wanting to work with me for a little while. And I said, let’s do it, you know, and they’ve they’ve really kind of been able to do a lot for me and help grow me in in those markets.

Justin Fortier: Was the the sound matching was that important for you, in terms of when you started working with Stephanie, you saw she was working with cascade, you know, the sound was alignment, you knew she was well educated on the type of music you’re going to be creating in the future and getting you in with some of the right spaces? Have you seen any managers or artists combinations where it maybe didn’t make sense of what the match was, but it still worked out? Or is the the music? Do you think some managers don’t get the music properly?

CID: Yeah, I mean, everything goes back to having the right context and everything, you know, if your manager who does all bass artists, and you sign a house artists, you’re gonna have some trouble, you know, you try to play songs on the right dance, like the right house labels, because you don’t have those contexts. So, yes, and no, I mean, you know, look at someone like Moshe leesy, who’s done marshmallow. And now he’s doing a lesson on stuff.

Justin Fortier: I think there can be some combinations that are not going to work out for sure. As far as managing artists. In the one of my previous episodes of the podcast, and on a New York City, comedian, Jared freed, where he talked about stand up, when he’s actually performing live as a room. That’s kind of the focal point of his career, all the podcasts that shows anything that he does with TV, it’s all kind of to drive a stand up audience where he gets to be funny for money, as he said, Is there a focal point for you? Or do you see producing as supporting being a DJ? How do you think about that?

CID: I think about this all the time. They both work with each other, like they both work hand in hand, I think you need the music, to get people excited. Number one, to show your management your agents that you have something to promote. So you constantly need to be putting out music, to get the shows in to play the shows to, in a way, create new fans, we’re going to go back and either are already listening to music or get new fans that are going to listen to music. So I think with DJing they’re both 50-50 for sure.

Justin Fortier: Have you noticed any change over time? Has any of that balance shifted? It seems like in the past, you might have been able to be a DJ a little bit more without making as many tracks somebody like Carl Cox hasn’t made as many tracks over time. But now it seems like the producer element is key. Is that a fair assessment of how you’ve seen it?

CID: I think more underground dance genres people value the DJ More than whatever the hell they’re putting out as music, just be put in, you have to understand, like, it’s very hard to break in that world. You know, it’s it’s a lot more about it’s like a mini club of friends. And it’s very hard to get into, you know, like the Martinez brothers aren’t necessarily DJs that you really ever went to to like, through their music, like you became fans of them because of their sets. You know, that was that’s their thing. But I think even more. So I think more commercial genres, even like tech house, it’s very much driven by the producer side of it, for sure. And then it just becomes this kind of cycle that it’s like, put out music, people see you, you start building that way. So yeah.

Justin Fortier: In the balance of putting out tracks and people finding you through your music and doing more commercial stuff. You now have a label night service only? How do you decide when you want to be working on more commercial stuff? And when you want to be putting out tracks on your own label? Now that you have that?

CID: Yeah, I mean, I saw the whole branding behind the labels might service owning that, I really wanted to create something that and I, I had the name already for maybe a year or two before, before I launched it, or really wanted to put it out. But that’s kind of the idea is like, this is only club stuff, like I’m not gonna put out a new vocal through the label, because it doesn’t make sense. And the, that’s the main purpose of that, you know, I think I’ve, I have one through this weird kind of cycle where I’ve had some more success with some of the more melodic vocal stuff, but in reality, like, you know, I am a club DJ. And that’s kind of most of my sets is, you know, 80% that so it’s, you know, we can kind of confuse the listener, like, what do you do, but at the same time, like, you know, I have people who love the vocal stuff, and then love the club stuff. I have people who love the club’s stuff, and I’ll put out a vocal record, it doesn’t really they’re not like, Oh, my God, you put out this vocal? Gross, like, you know, is it’s kind of one of those things and the people and I think we’ve, we’ve come to this point in us, especially where like, people want more club music, you know? Yeah, sure, the streams are not going to be the same. But it’s the same thing like what you said about dirtybird. It’s like, it’s not music, that people are going to be sitting at home or listening to 10 times in a row, but they’re going to, they’re going to want to hear that song live in a club or in a festival for sure.

Justin Fortier: Yeah, my girlfriend’s been protesting a bit because I often try to play that music 10 times in a row at home. And I think that night she said, we can we do something a little bit more relaxing? On night service, only when you started it up before you launched, you launched your radio show on duplos revolution, how did you go about landing that was that a an after math of the the remix you did for him or?

CID: So the idea for night service only I had had the original thing was it was just I wanted to eventually. So I was just I feel like we’re at this point now where everyone is kind of launched their own label, you know, there’s a lot of DJs, who now just have their own label, right. And it’s this weird for me, it was like finding the right moment to do it, where you feel like, you can make a difference. Because you need to have again, you want to be at a certain point where you can help young, smaller artists grow. So for me, we had been me and my team have had been toying about the idea for the label side. And then I I originally had a conversation with spinning. Because we thought were like, Well, you know, we can spin it on board. That’s this huge marketing machine behind the label. And at first, they’re like, yeah, yeah, that could be cool. And I was like, all right. And I was like, Fuck, you know, maybe it’s not the right time. And then my manager reached out to spin in. And they were like, yeah, we want to do this. I was like, okay, so that jump started it for me as far as like, let’s do this. Now. I think it’ll be a good time we have them behind us like, even though it doesn’t affect the branding label, necessarily, it’s gonna open us up to all these fans because they’re going to, you know, promoted and, and stuff. And around that same time that we started negotiating that deal. I think, you know, Stephanie, she had, again, you know, she is an artist web really successful radio shows. And we don’t we had talked about the idea of doing it. And I think I was my either at or, or at a festival when I was with the Sirius XM guys. And I just brought it up. I was like, hey, like, launching this brand. Like, I’d love to do a radio show. And we’re like, Yeah, let’s do it. And then Stephanie. She has the same, you know, she’s very close with them also. And, and they were like, yeah, we’re down to do this. But there was this weird transition period, because Sirius XM, that second channel was, what was it called electric area. So when they cut electric area went to people’s revolution. A lot of people’s radio shows got taken off. So we didn’t know what was going to happen. And luckily, again, yeah, it was the relationship that Stephanie and we had with Diplo, like the name recognition with him as far as my stuff. And they were like, yeah, let’s do this. So that’s kind of how that came about.

Justin Fortier: On the radio thing. Since this is called the toolkit. What do you use to put together your radio show? I think I’ve seen some Instagram stories where you’re putting it together. Do you typically do that in a music production software? Or do you mix it live like you’re a DJ and record that?

CID: The intro I made, like, just in Ableton, and I have that in a template. And then, for the guys at the PLOS revolution, they sent me they had gotten done like a bunch of, like, lab, I guess, like branded liners. You know, you’re listening tonight service only. So I have those. So basically, you know, I’ve never really done this before. My approach was I’ll do the first show, and then I’ll turn that into a template. So I do it in Ableton. And what I do is, I don’t know why, but I’d like a plane in a empty project. I’ll do the whole mix. And then import that into the template, rearrange all where the focal dropping to go. And then I use audition actually, to do my voiceovers. So like for my intro, and like when I do like the selection and stuff, I do that audition just because it’s so easy.

Justin Fortier: And what is Ableton’s digital audio workstation, for the listeners who don’t know, which is how you put together songs, and what’s audition?

CID: Audition is it’s like what a lot of people use for podcasts and for for radio shows and stuff. So it’s super easy to just record audio into it. And it has these like amazing presets that you can just click a button and it does like all the necessary stuff to make you sound like to make you sound sexy. Awesome. But yeah, you should check it out through for the show because you can just you know normalizes everything and just makes it sound good. Yeah, I’m not audio, export it into Ableton and then place it where I need to.

Justin Fortier: Yeah, I mixed this currently in Ableton, which is overkill. But I just had it because I was messing around on Ableton. In the will joy podcast, you talked about how your first tool you started out with was reason. And then you started playing around with logic? How did you come about choosing which platform or which tool you’re going to make music on.

CID: So I had two older brothers that my oldest brother was always kind of the more musician one and he always had random shit at home like drum machines and keyboards and stuff. And he had a PC and he had reason on and I think I want to say that that’s how I was. And so that’s what I was and it was just seemed like the thing to use logic was also at the time like a lot more expensive and you couldn’t impossible to crack so and reason I think Yeah, I don’t think ever, ever pay for reason. At the beginning. Sorry, guys. But yeah, so it was just that it was like it was what I had, and what I could use, and I you know, and it was it’s kind of reason is more like feels like a little bit of it’s a lot of really successful producers use it but kind of feels more like a game in a way like the way it’s laid out. So that’s how I started. I know a lot of guys have started and reason now it’s just able to initiate taken over and it’s such an easy door to use that like, that’s for the majority people.

Justin Fortier: Does that make it easier to collaborate with others because you use Ableton or when you collaborate? I don’t know, the Vinny track you did take your place, is that? Have you ever done a collab with someone who’s using a different dog, or they’re just exporting the…

CID: Sick Brazilian producer. For that one, he’s in FL Studio. So they don’t that I think, before, Ableton was already around, but FL Studio and it still is like that’s kind of was like the doll that people started up in. But it’s such a powerful doll that people still will stay using it. So for that one, he just rendered out stems sent those to me, I imported them into Ableton, and then I worked on it there and then finished it. So some times, if it’s a song that I’m starting with somebody in the room together, and we’re both in the same doll, usually, I’ll just see the project, send it to them. And we can just save new versions of go back and forth that way. If it’s something that’s kind of created online, it’s usually stems just because it’s easier, you don’t have to worry about somebody missing plugins or anything.

Justin Fortier: I’m gonna move back just a bit to when we were talking about night service only and spinning. I don’t know too much about the music industry. But it looks like a lot of these late artists driven labels are connected to these well established big labels. What What is night service only in relation to spin in and and what were some of the other choices or thoughts going on your head when you said, I want to start a label?

CID: Yeah, so the end of the day there. It’s my label, but I have like an ad administration deal with spinning, so they’re handling for me, all the contracting. They’re handling all the promo, they’re handling. You know, they’ll help me with it. Some a&r stuff, I think, everything I’ve put out so far was just something, then, you know, something that I brought in, but you know, they’re, they’re, they’re actually or maybe, maybe not, I can’t remember, but so you’re giving up a percentage of your earnings to spinning for them to tap into their network. And obviously, for me, so my thinking was, I can go completely independent, grow this myself, or I could tap into their marketing their social media posts in the beginning, especially for my stuff, because they, you know, I’ve released with them already, there’s, for me, there’s familiarity there. They, they’re going to post on their socials and post on their Instagram. So that was, for me the deciding factor, it’s like, I feel like I’m, I can grow this in, in three years, or I can grow this in one year, to a slightly bigger level than it would be off the bat With their help. So that’s what it was, for me, I think we’re at this point where, you know, if you have the budget, if you have the time, you don’t necessarily need a label like this. So you can go to a distributor, get like, you know, 15% deal, and really do it yourself. You know, I’m lucky where I have on my management team, Daniel, who’s my manager, and, you know, most of my data all my day to day stuff. He’s also had a lot of experience on the label side. Originally, it was Trevor, who, which I kind of got lucky this way. So Trevor was my day to day before was more of a marketing guy. And he helped me a lot with the original ideas for the branding and stuff. And he ended up you know, getting sick and tired of working with the knobs. But he ended up transitioning to, to something else. And then Daniel came in, it was more of like a label came from the label side. Like independent label sites, so he’s been able to help me kind of, you know, just tee up a lot of this stuff with spinning. So the thing is, if it’s just you, creating a label, there is a lot of work to be done. There’s a lot of resources you need. So, so I you know, the more I, I’m kind of in this with spinning, it’s like, you know, they just alleviate a lot of those that time and read things that we wouldn’t make You need to hire somebody full time to do this, you know?

Justin Fortier: Yeah. And those are things that I’m sure take you away from producing and DJing and being able to focus on making great stuff. When you’re doing a&r for your label, how are you, I guess, developing or thinking or finding tracks or people to work with DMS? Or what’s the method that people get in contact with you?

CID: I’m on this front man, I can like I’m kind of scatterbrained. And it’s tough to do everything like, you know, every Monday I do my radio show, like I lose a whole day essentially, between, you know, my whole goal is like, I want people to come to the show to discover new stuff. I don’t just want to play shit that’s out there. So that’s a whole day, obviously, then I need to focus on producing and everything. So I’ve been kind of, I go through demo emails. And, and if somebody DMS mean, 90% of the time I answer and I, I listen to the song maybe closer to 99%. So far, for me, it’s been like, Guys who I’ve kind of seen bubbling a little bit like, smaller artists that I like, think are cool. Maybe I’ll just dm them. I think for for the mnr tune justice, a time producer. Somebody actually put me on to them and said, Oh, check this out. I reached out. And he was like, down to put it out. And yeah, other times, like I’ll play a track in my radio show. And when I promoted, I’ll tag them. And they’ll be Oh, thanks for this. And then I’ll be like, yep, send me some shit for my label. And they’re down. I just signed this track from these kids that just was a DM never heard of them at all. And, and it just went from that. So most To be honest, 90% of it has been like on Instagram, DMS, I don’t know if that’s just because I’m spending way too much time on Instagram that I’m checking my DMS like all the time and making sure like I’m answering stuff on there. But that’s that’s what it’s been for me for sure. And then once it gets to a point, usually, I mean, even this last couple, I’ll just like a&r the record on DMV, like change this or tweak this. And then when they’re like, Okay, this is it. I was like, Alright, send me an email. I’ll connect everyone and do it. And we make it official from there.

Justin Fortier: Do you have any advice for that you’ve learned from your submitting over all these years, and being on the other end of DNS or submissions of how to make that process go smoothly for young producers who want to get their tracks listened to or noticed? Is there anything you found when you’re submitting? That just makes it easier? On the other side of the people reviewing or more?

CID: You don’t want to be annoying. But that’s for sure. I mean, if you’re at them, sadly, you’re at the mercy of these people. And you know, I I’m sure there’s some people out there who think I’m a dick, like this guy didn’t answer. They didn’t answer me or something. And it’s, you know, there’s a lot of emails and messages coming in all the fucking time. And you know, but my experience has been more. I mean, granted, my first ever track that I ever put out was in, but I didn’t even know I was still in reason. And I was like, an email that I found online from Marcus Schultz. And it took them four weeks to answer me. And he ended up signing that track. But in my experience, with like Steve Angelo, with testo it was putting out Luckily, again, you know, I had established myself a little bit. And it was putting out music that they ended up following me on Twitter. And then from there, emailing them or asking for their email. And then kind of that was how the connection was made was through Twitter for both of them. So, yeah, I think it’s just, you know, being being persistent, but not being fucking annoying. Like, if I didn’t answer you, and you send it five times, like, that’s not don’t send the same thing five times, you know, send another track and, and maybe to me or to whoever and hopefully they listen to that and then go from there. I think, you know, especially early on there’s there is such like a such exponential growth in this and one thing I like kind of tell younger artists is just be patient like you don’t, don’t think your first track is gonna be like, the most revolutionary thing you read. It takes time and I’ve worked very hard at this for a long, long time. And it’s important to remember that. And then another way that I think, has always proven to be a way to get known as is bootleg remixes, you know, you got to be a little more clever now than you needed to be like, even 10 years ago, when you could just put up a bootleg on Soundcloud and want to get taken down or anything, but I think bootlegs are still really key, you know, I’m still looking for bootlegs, all DJs are going to be looking for bootlegs of stuff to play and festivals and, and things like that. So I think that’s still a very important, a very, very good tool to use to get the attention of some of these bigger artists, they’ll get, you’ll get a little bit of random name recognition, then there’ll be more inclined to to check your stuff out and potentially find something original.

Justin Fortier: On bootlegs when you’re making something or you get the idea to or you’re inspired. I heard you talking about the testo being able to being interested in was an ill behavior. Was that the one on his Oh, Steve Angelo, what am I? What was that? No. clearing a sample like that? Is that’s when you make a bootleg now, are you thinking at all like, Can I get this sample cleared? Or are you mostly just thinking, I want to make a great track, because this is an awesome sample.

CID: I’m thinking my management hates me for using samples. So I’m thinking, when I get an idea like that, it’s like, do I invest the time to turn this into something? Because what are the chances of it getting cleared? That’s, that’s really thing with and it’s something I still struggle with, you know, because you’re at the mercy of the original, right, older. So, number one, are they going to be cool with clearing it? Number two, what are they gonna want? You know, I’ve had to pay some crazy advanced fees, you know, on some of these things. And at the end of the day, though, it’s like, it’s not your fucking idea. So I don’t know, if you curse on the show. I’m so sorry. It’s all good. It’s not your original idea. So, you know, you have to clear it. There’s a lot of tech house labels that just put it up on the board and none of its cleared, and they just wing it. And if something is big enough, it will get taken down.

Justin Fortier: Yeah. You answered it. I was wondering about you now being an established artist who’s going to put out a certain number of tracks per year that you’re probably targeting, how do you flirt between the bootleg getting a cleared sample, it always amazes me to some extent, how some, some other artists are, I guess, are not into their ideas being done, or at least, remixed cost effectively, like Justin Martin has this incredible remix of York’s the anchor song. And I’ve only seen it on his recordings of live shows and things like that, but the track is beautiful. But he’s reported that there’s no way he’s ever going to be able to release it. And so it just lives kind of in infamy, which, which, to me is a bit of a shame. And I wish there was some way to figure that out. Do Is it usually a money thing on the other end? Or is it like you’re distorting my reputation or too much administrative hassle? Like what’s the…

CID: I’ve definitely been in certain situations, where it’s like, now they don’t, they don’t want to clear it. All they’re situ, like I have. I took it up another notch on something I did recently, where I didn’t use one sample I used to my manager, it’s like, Are you fucking crazy? So the problem we ran into there was one, so now it’s, there’s that’s 200% you know, as far as the publishing side of it, like, That’s impossible. And one of the samples they’re asking for 100% you know, and the other one conceded to 50% but the other ones still insisting on 100. So there’s so many different factors like is it you know, I always look at, I look at things a little different than most people like I’ve been fortunate to have made some mean over the last like two years. decent income on on the music side on the streaming side. But I never really looked at it that way, like, I want to make whatever the hell is going to get people to want to follow me and come to my shows, you know, so I don’t care if I have to spend some money, or the or delete, watch the spending and then I ended up having to recoup, you know that money to the label. So yeah, like no, no was a crazy one because I was TLC, no scrub sample. First, we’re like, we’re not gonna be able to get this clear, let’s just put it out as a free download kind of thing. We had made our work for it as like a free download. And then I, I dm did to testo before the Miami Music Week, that year, I can’t remember what year was. And he wrote back, he’s like, what are you doing with this? Like, I want to sign it. And I was like, well, like, I don’t think we could clear it. You know, we’re gonna just give it a free He’s like, No, no, he’s like, send it. Like, let’s set this up. Like, I’ll help you clear, we’ll assign it to my label, I said, Look, if you can get this thing cleared short, and it took, you know, musical freedom tried. And musical freedom is kind of has a similar deal with me with spinning where they’re administered by spinning, spinning, was trying to clear it. And they got nowhere for about eight months. And I literally got the call from him, like we and it was like a constant follow up with with their team for like, every fucking week, I’m like, What’s up with this? For fucking like eight months, they got to the musical freedom got to the point where they’re, like, probably got tired of me asking about it. And they were like, we’re not getting anywhere with this, we got to drop it. And that same day, I had used this company that cleared it’ll behavior, which was renegade Master sample. And I just called the guy. And I’m like, dude, you don’t make clear that sample. Any I just don’t I had sample this, I’m having trouble. He’s like, oh, and it just was one of those things that it just like, I got lucky where this guy actually was managing TLC. And like, had administered Dallas Austin, who was one of the one of the producers like main producer, TLC, and that’s how I got to clear but again, once you get to that point where they’re like, yeah, we like this, we’ll let you clear it. There’s it’s a whole negotiation there that like there is no like, you know, guidelines to what you can ask for what they’re going to want. So it just it gets to that point, and then you’re still at the mercy of them. And then you want to try to negotiate to kind of, you know, include yourself in that song. Yeah, but it’s one of those things where as far as my time, it’s like, I did I still do bootlegs, though, like, if I think something is gonna pop, but it’s like, the chances of it, but for that stuff, it’s usually like a newer song. So like, when I did the cardi B, the cardi B thing, it was just bubbling in clubs, like my girlfriend was like, oh, like, this song is, I’m hearing it like, you know, all the time. And I was like, Oh, well, that’s kind of cool. So I did it, then, with the hopes that it will be one that would kind of pop. And then I had like, one of the first remixes that DJs are gonna want to, you know, seek out and play.

Justin Fortier: That makes a lot of sense. I’ve got only a couple more questions. Probably, if you got time, the on making those tracks? Have you ever considered? Or is it possible to recreate the sound using other people of let’s say, You’ve the, for something like know, your track? Where do you ever now that you’re more established? Do you have the capability to get like vocal artists to pretty much do a cover? That’s very similar? I mean, some of these things don’t seem that hard to recreate from maybe some extra work. But is anybody doing that in the in the end?

CID: Yeah, all the time, but I know is technically a cover. Hmm, oh, when it comes to clearing the rights to a song, there’s the master side and the publishing side, right? The master side is owned is a physical thing. So that master recording and you know, some most artists don’t ever retain the rights of their master recording, but they retain the rights of their publishing. So I can go to you and say, Oh, I want to clear the song but you say oh, I have the publishing but I don’t have the master rights. So there’s companies but TLC was a weird one because they had just finished the A like to like one of these like made for TV documentaries. They ran into the problem with they wanted the music in the show and And they didn’t want to spend the money to clear it with all those original labels. So they re sang the songs themselves. So I got these original, these recent versions of the TLC songs from TLC. Most of the time, though, it’s, you clear the publishing. And then there’s these companies that are like replay houses. And like, they have this insane Rolodex of, of singers, or fucking bands. Like if you want to do a disco sample, and they go, and basically hand you back like something that sounds exactly like the original, and then you can go back replace, what was the original sample with this replayed version? And then you’re clear? Yeah, there’s definitely situations where people have also just said, Oh, this is kind of the idea. It’s a sample, I don’t want, I want to keep 100% of the rights. Let’s just come up with something similar. But you know, you look at the trouble that like for rail has gone into, you know, with you, it’s kind of a slippery slope. If it’s too close, you’re gonna get called out and you might get sued. So you got to be careful.

Justin Fortier: Yeah, that doesn’t sound fun. When you’re making your tracks both for you and what you’re putting out on the label, how much are you testing them in a club all before release? Or festival? How many times do you think you you play before you get a sense of, yeah, this track this track is something I’m going to wrap up…

CID: Especially if it’s something that’s unknown. I mean, granted, it depends on if it’s like a crowd that I know, be. Like, kind of, if it’s a good crowd, and I then I test it out, and it works. And one time is enough, sometimes maybe isn’t a good crowd, just pops in another couple shots, but usually the first time, like, if you kind of get that feeling, especially. It’s so different, I have a studio setup that I know really well, I know how it sounds. But when you’re in a DJ booth, and you’re playing 10 Records, and then in between those 10, you play your own, and you’re like, wow, that sonically fit perfectly. With everything else I played, I got that checked off. And then you see the reaction. It’s like, Okay, this thing, nobody knows this thing. Well, people are reacting to it. And I think more so in the last, like, you know, we went through this phase where I think people went out expecting what to hear, you know, like they like wanted to hear they wanted to know, every fucking record every song. And now I think we’re in this phase where, like, people want to be surprised. So I think it’s that the reactions have gotten bigger for like, something they don’t know. So it’s become easier to be like, okay, yeah, this one is like, the one you know, and a lot of it too is I play it in a couple of shows. And people tweet about it, or DM me be like, What was this? And I’m like, okay, that’s a good sign.

Justin Fortier: For some tracks, ones, I just heard your new one. Dolce and fish are the two he just released freaks and want to go dancing. heard those for a long time before they actually got released? What what is happening in between the first play? Is it to build excitement for the track in and out? Or is it the legal stuff, or some combination of all of that?

CID: I think for you know, I’ve thought about this a lot for Fischer losing it was just so big. And it just kept growing, right? So when you have that happen, you have a lot of pressure of like, what are you going to put out next? If it’s not as big is your career going down? So I think they, though I mean, again, like Fisher is a different style artists like it’s propelled him to this level, because the music is so good. But he as a personality is just like tenfold of most artists. So I think I don’t know. I mean, I think in his situation, I had gotten somebody sent me with a passion app that the EP like long before it came out. So I’m under the impression it was maybe something that was planned to come out much sooner. But because losing it just kept going. And they they didn’t put anything else out. In my situation with Dolce, it was kind of about finding the right time to put it out and going through the process of clearing the sample. And, yeah, and you know, putting it out, planning to put it out around when it will help the touring Beside more, because it’s a club record. So those are kind of the factors for me.

Justin Fortier: And so my last one is a two parter the it sounds like a lot of the brakes in your career have come from conversations you’ve had and relationships you’ve developed at music events, one, if you’re touring a lot, how does that happen? And where are you going to and also, I guess, if you can name top three clubs, or that you’ve been to around the world in the last three years that you really like.

CID: The first question, I think, early on, obviously, it’s online. But then, you know, my experience I there’s Miami and ad are still really important pieces to this. And I think I’ve met artists who, you know, maybe they weren’t doing much didn’t pop for a few years, but I met them in person just out partying. So I think a lot of like, the inner community, like relationships, DJ to DJ, I think are done. Especially in Miami, because, you know, you’re playing all these shows, nobody’s doing really any like meeting like, meetings or business. It’s just DJs who go DJ and then go party and hang out with other DJs. So a lot of relationships, I think were made their festivals, you know, um, you know, I try to kind of spend my time having fun, obviously, but also like, if there’s someone there that I want to meet, like, I’m gonna go out of my way to make sure I kind of, you know, and it can go two ways. If somebody’s too big, they can totally goes to you and it will ruin your perception of them forever. Luckily, that hasn’t necessarily happened. But this summer, I mean, on the positive note, I I forget what fest I was playing with Steve Aoki was playing and he was one one guy that just like, I don’t think I knew I was on his radar, you played a bunch of the stuff that I did with like Don Diablo, but I was, luckily I was with somebody who like, knew his tour manager, somebody and I was able to meet him. And right away, he’s like, oh, you’re said, like, dude, great to meet you. Like, let’s make some music. And it turned into now as potentially having a club that, hopefully will come out at some point. And then, so yeah, I mean, I think a lot of it is people want to be your friend, you know, in, especially in the underground side, like, the underground is just all about who these guys fuck with and like, are you in their crew, you know, men because it’s more about the party. So you really need to be like, in with these guys, if they’re gonna put you on, you know, I have a friend who is crazy example. Like, he was like, one of the few big New York open format DJs and then he before EDM popped, he was like, Oh, this is the thing. And he’s like, I helped him early on with producing. And he had like, you know, a go at that and toured a lot. And then he got to the point where he, he was just like, he’s like, I hate this music now. And like, started doing underground before kind of underground popped. And it took him a really long time to, to kind of get in those circles. And a big part of it was he’s got like this sick loft, or had before he had the sick loft, there was like legendary, in Manhattan, like right in meatpacking, and he would throw these after hours and like would have Marco Corolla come DJ in his house, and his loft and have like, you know, Nick ventually Jamie Jones so he got himself in these circles by being like, the guy that like people would afterparty with in in New York and he’s like he’s in actually an insane producer and it took him years to kind of miss that, you know, kind of get himself in there and and now start releasing on like creations and, and I think he did some stuff on Martinez brothers cutting heads label to so Yeah, dude, it’s everything is relationship based. 100%. Now, that’s why managers are there if you’re an artist who, you know, I don’t think I’m the greatest people person. I think producers can be kind of semi introverted, some more than others. Um, luckily, where I’m like, somewhere in this weird middle ground where I could still have a conversation most of the time with people but yeah, a lot of this is things that managers can be doing if a manager believes in you and has a connection so you know, be able to get to where you need to, you need to go.

Justin Fortier: Yeah, and I guess to close on the second part, I’ve now found that asking two-part questions never works on a podcast, but best clubs top three.

CID: Top three I want to say echo stage. And in DC I want to say this club called, which it’s not even a club. It’s like a permanent festival in Brazil, what’s called a little rock. And third, the ham. I don’t know,

Justin Fortier: I guess we could just stick with the top tube, what makes them kind of the memorable?

CID: Echo stage is just like, they found the perfect balance of like, feeling like a club, but it being like a giant warehouse kind of, you know, it’s like a 505,000 cap, or maybe a little less like, three or four venue. It’s just like they were managed to keep that vibe. And then Little Rock. It was just, I played there a couple years ago, and it’s just like, the most insane production and place like ever. And it’s just like, there’s a giant it looks like, you know, like the Coachella stage. That’s like, one of those Yeah, Ark. It’s literally that but it’s just there all year long. And it’s people go every weekend and just, it’s like tons of people. And then number three, I would probably say avid gardener, Brooklyn Mirage in New York. It just because it’s like, what they’ve been able to build there. And they really, you know, New York for a long time was missing that like, community. You know, when we had Pasha, which is a legendary club, there was that community where like, you know, maybe the average fan didn’t speak to them, but like you knew the people who ran it. And I feel like there is that community of people that are like that. I have like, helped bring that back to New York, you know. So, as probably top three.

Justin Fortier: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on. Man. I learned a lot. This is so cool. Yeah, I really appreciate it. This was fun. Thanks for having me. Have a good one, man.

Justin Fortier: Thanks for listening to the episode and a special thank you to Shawn Fleischer, one half of the NYC bass duo pool house for answering some of my questions about DJing and getting started producing prior to recording. What’s it. One piece of advice Shawn offered for new artists was to be thoughtful about who you send your demos to, and how you send them. It may be tempting to put out everything you make to every label you like at the beginning. But restraint pays off. Labels want to get an exclusive look or at least feel like they aren’t on some distribution list. When you really have a whole song just send that you’re proud of pick a label that you think will resonate with and reach out. When sending a private SoundCloud link or other file share mechanism. Make sure that the play count is low and keep the wording direct and focus to how you fit with the label. One thing that’s clear after talking to sit and john is the music business is just as much about building relationships, as it is the music. Getting the right team in place to turn a hot track into enduring relationships with collaborators, promoters and marketers is a way to turn passion into a career.

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